With the 2011 Hockey Hall of Fame Induction coming up, I wanted to do something different for Hockeybuzz. So fellow blogger and good friend, Scoop Cooper, had arranged for me to have a conversation with Mark Howe, who along with Ed Belfour, Doug Gilmour, and Joe Nieuwendyk will be inducted this year.
This turned out to be a real treat for myself, and hopefully for you, too, because he agreed to be interviewed for the website.
For those who don't know, Mr. Howe played 22 professional seasons of hockey, 6 in the World Hockey Association and 16 in the National Hockey League. In his time in the WHA he played for the Houston Aeros and the Hartford Whalers, left winger Howe put up 504 points in 208 games and was the league's all-time leading playoff scorer.
At the age of 25, Howe made a permanent switch from forward to defense. It did not take long for him to become an elite player at his new position. Howe was a three time finalist for the Norris Trophy and a one-time finalist for the Hart Trophy.
In the NHL with the Hartford Whalers, Philadelphia Flyers, and the Detroit Red Wings he put up 742 points in 929 games. During that time he was a 1st team all star three times; He also represented both Canada (in a WHA vs. Soviets series) and the United States internationally, including a silver medal for Team USA as a 16-year-old at the 1972 Sopporo Olympics.
Due to the length of our conversation, this blog will be separated into two parts. In the first part Mark will talk about the impact his parents had on his hockey life, how the NHLPA has affected his career, and the differences between the game during his playing days and today's game.
You can read Part 2 of this interview here:
Exclusive Mark Howe Interview Part 2
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Adam Kirshenblatt: Tell me the impact that both your mom and dad had on your hockey career? Did you find it difficult growing up with your dad being who he is?
Mark Howe: Mostly my dad has been the example, not through words or teaching but far more through the examples what he displayed mostly off the ice. What he did on the ice was his job and profession, which was something that I loved. I watched him religiously all the games he played in Detroit but once you play with somebody you get a whole different feeling about what the person does day in and day out with practice and everything.
What I always admired most about my dad is the way he conducted himself off the ice, the person he is, and the way he is in the public and continues to be this way. I’ve been quoted many times saying “Gordie Howe is a far better person than he ever was a hockey player”.
What my mom taught me was that, with my dad traveling a lot, mom was the one responsible for hauling us four kids around to the hockey rinks, teaching us right from wrong and keeping up with our schooling. Being young boys who are mischievous, she had to keep us in line once in a while.
Biggest thing growing up in Detroit, being the son of Gordie Howe… it’s different than somebody else. Part of what she taught me was how to be the son of Gordie Howe and the responsibilities that come with that. There are some burdens, but with every burden you have you have 20 doors you have opened, so it’s actually a huge benefit but it’s only a benefit if you use it the right way and conduct yourself in the right way. There are a million great things that come with being the son of Gordie Howe but there are certain things and one of them is the pride of carrying that name around for your life. Being the son of Gordie Howe is a tremendous honour and like I said it’s something that you never want the name to be tarnished. That’s a lot of what my mom taught me as a young child growing up.
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Blogger's Note: I've always felt that when you talk about Gordie Howe, you have to talk about Colleen too. I honestly cannot think of another hockey wife who has had more of an impact on the game than she did. From handling the business side of Gordie's hockey career to being available to fans in the Michigan area, she had an idea of what being "Mrs. Hockey" meant, similar to the way Wayne Gretzky knew what he meant to the game. Mr. and Mrs. Hockey, at least publicly, is as close to the perfect hockey couple as there ever has been.
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Adam Kirshenblatt: You have been in a unique position when it comes to the history of the NHLPA. Shortly after you were born your dad and Mr. Lindsay tried to start up the first installment of the NHLPA which failed, when your pro career started the NHLPA was in its infancy, and near the end of your career you saw the end of the Alan Eagleson era. How did that affect you personally and professionally?
Mark Howe: The biggest thing with the Players Association was that it generally comes down to dollars and cents while protecting player’s rights. For me, there were two things that impacted me the most. One was the WHA, which gave the players two options instead of just being limited to one. As an example my dad’s last two years in Detroit he made $100,000 each year. He retires for two years, I’m an 18 year old kid and I sign in the WHA and I sign for $125,000 a year. So I made 25% more than my dad ever made in 25 years in pro hockey. So the WHA was a tremendous help for player’s salaries
The next biggest help was Bobby Goodenow, I played minor hockey and I knew him a little bit, and he did my last contract with him in Philly. I played 22 years of pro hockey but I made more money in my last 5 years than I did in my previous 17, and that’s when Bobby Goodenow took over the Player’s Association. Financially, the WHA and Bobby Goodenow had a tremendous impact on my financial well-being.
Through the Players Association, I’m still a part of the insurance program that’s provided to the alumni, who played after a certain period. Having health insurance for my family has been a huge addition to me as well
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Blogger's Note: Throughout the NHLPA's lifetime, the Howes have usually been front and centre. In 1957, Ted Lindsay and Gordie Howe were the leaders of the Detroit Red Wings team that tried to start up the first Players Association. The NHLPA was just in its infancy when Mark Howe started to play professionally and it was a large part of the legitimacy of the WHA, as it pushed players to go where they can get the best deal. While near the end of his career, Gordie, as well as Carl Brewer and 5 others, were involved with a law suit to get the NHL Pension Plan away from the control of the NHL owners and NHLPA (i.e. Alan Eagleson) which they won. Being around all the sides of the story makes an interesting perspective for Mark.
What Mark said about the difference in his father's salary in the 25 years he played in the NHL and his first year professionally shows the difference in styles that owners were running their businesses with and without the NHLPA. Also, the dramatic pay increase within the least 5 years of Mark's career compared to the other 17 years, when Bob Goodenow took over the NHLPA just shows first of all the impact of a strong leader in the NHLPA, but also the values of the owners who want to win a championship and willing to pay for it.
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2011 Hockey Hall of Fame inductee Mark Howe
Adam Kirshenblatt: In 1986 you finished 2nd Norris Trophy voting while having 82 points that season and were a +85. Paul Coffey who won the Norris finished with 138 points. Both point totals are unheard of by today’s standards. Can you talk about the era of hockey compared to the late 90s and present day?
Mark Howe: The game is the game, when you look back at old video clips; the players today all are bigger. Back in the 80s you had a few guys who were not the most mobile, and the conditioning level of the players today is far better overall. Probably the biggest change is the way coach’s changed the way the game is played through video. Games used to be two guys forecheck ,one guy high, you’d have 3 guys coming back with the puck but now a days normally you come into the neutral zone you have 5 guys staring you in the face, there’s no space. With the big bodies that can move, there’s even less space. So it’s technically far more sound than the game has ever been, but I don’t know if the entertainment value is what it was back then.
There was more fighting, I know they’ve tried to get fighting out of the game but it’s part of the game and always has been. It doesn’t matter what all the polls say, people enjoy the fighting and open ice hits, and they enjoy the scoring… especially the home team.
The players in both eras are great players but the one thing is it’s far more difficult for the officials now than what it was. Officials back then had a great rapport with the players and you could yell and scream at each other. The referee set the tone at the start of the game to let you know the parameters on how the game was going to be played, what you can get away with and what you can’t. Nowadays you just don’t have that. There’s so much more of an onus put on the referees and it just makes their job so much more difficult, whereas back in the 80s they set the parameters and players went out and played while the game policed itself.
There are so many injuries nowadays because guys are big, strong, fast, but you can take runs at people left and right and there’s no accountability. If somebody tries to do something, well your team is short-handed, you get a power play goal scored against, game over, you lose. It’s almost better to have players who take runs at people and turn the other cheek and don’t have to back it up. I think that is a major cause of some of the injuries.
Adam Kirshenblatt: So would like to see the Instigator Rule taken out of the game?
Mark Howe: I wouldn’t mind it but I don’t know. There were injuries in the past, but there are far more injuries now and more long term injuries than there were in the past. I know in the past that if somebody was taking runs at your star player, somebody went out and levelled the playing field.
With Wayne Gretzky, everyone was like “why isn’t anyone going out and taking shots at Wayne Gretzky?” well that was a tough enough chore even if Dave Semenko wasn’t riding shot gun. But if people were taking shots at Wayne Gretzky, it was put to bed pretty quick. Wayne didn’t have to deal with it. Teams now a day people are taking shots at people, and if the referees don’t stop it then there’s no other recourse. When you got guys 220 pounds who can skate as fast as those 180 pounds, people get hurt, and that’s how they get hurt. It’s part of it, but it’s not the total package.
I was never a tough guy but I appreciated the tough guys around but they kept the game honest. I think more honest than it is today. They got rid of the pretenders. Take a Wendel Clark, who was a good hockey player and he played tough in your face hockey, did it clean, did it hard. If he took runs at other star players and he had to deal with it, and he dealt with it. You respect that. Today guys take runs at people, and they hurt people and they never have to defend themselves. That part of the game I don’t like. I think some of the injuries would go away if maybe it was the other way.
Adam Kirshenblatt: It seems to me that from the 80s up until your Red Wings got swept by the Devils in 1995 that the focus in coaching was on goals, while after that the focus became more on the trap. Does that seem like a fair statement?
Mark Howe: I’d say so, but they’ve been doing it in Europe and it is what it is. Being a scout you see 150 games a year, and there’s a lot of games you go to where you think it is difficult for the fans on a lot of nights. The teams are playing hard, efficient, and good quality hockey, but you only see 2 or 3 good scoring chances in a period and no big body hits because you’re coming into the trap, you’re taken out of the play, dump it in, dump out and so forth. Everything about it is good, except you lose on some of the entertainment value.
For me, to watch Paul Coffey take the puck and pick it up behind the net, circle around the right side and off he went it was exciting and fun to watch. Bobby Hull back in the day would come deep and get the puck, and he would do the same thing and the people in the building would stand on their feet and it was a great moment to watch. You don’t have that anymore with the trap. Technically it gives every team a chance to win any given night so fundamentally it’s much better for coaches and defensive systems but it maybe isn’t as much fun for the fans as it used to be.
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Blogger's Note: What Mark said about fighting is something I completely agree with. Something I've written in the past is no matter how "unpopular" people think fighting is in society, the truth of the matter is that it sells rather easily. After the lockout, hockey was having a hard time getting recognition nationally, the only times it was featured on ESPN highlight shows is where a line brawl took place. While some people may think that's a bad thing, I can tell you one thing, the people in the stadium sure didn't. The fans of those two teams thrived on it, and it has fueled a number of playoff series and rivalries since.
A few years back I read a biography on Steve Yzerman and the author mentioned that in the 80's, the powers that be in the NHL felt the best way to promote the game was to score goals. During this era, this seemed to be the way coaches pushed their games to be played and defense took a back seat. However, like any sport, this is a copycat league, and once teams saw the Devils' trap system wins games, while giving coach's a slightly larger longevity in their positions. The league had adapted to that.
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Next week, I will have Part 2 of this blog up. Mark will be talking about his induction coming up in mid November, the guys he's going in with, being able to share the experience with his father, the constant speculation every year about whether or not he will get in, and the Hockey Hall of Fame Induction process.
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